Meet The Artist Who First Hand-Drew The Iconic Apple Logo w/ Carlos Pérez David

[00:00:00] Carlos Pérez David: Steve wanted an apple. And he wanted an apple because the logo that he had previously was an illustration of Isaac Newton underneath an apple tree with an apple in his hands. It wasn't an icon. And he was looking for something simple, something iconic, and something that would just very quickly say "Apple." They had created a glossary of terms and one of the terms, inside of there, is the word BYTE but not spelled like the way you would spell bite, but it was B Y T E. "Byte" or you could say bit. So the fact that the Apple logo has a bite relates to the fact that we were working with a technology company . 
We looked at a variations of different ways of biting into the apple. I remember exploring the possibilities that it could have teeth marks. But eventually we went with something even simpler than that, and just simply a curve, that was basically the same shape as the leaf. In my mind, was developing it, playing around with those shapes, I made the leaf the same shape as the bite.So that if you take the bite of the apple, when you put it up on top, it became the leaf. That's the way that whole thing was developed. I still have my original sketches.

[00:01:27] Jesus Ramirez: Today's creator is Carlos Perez David. A creative director, graphic illustrator, and artist known for his collaboration in creating the iconic apple logo. 
Born in Mexico city, and raised in Stockton, California. Carlos is a first-generation college graduate who was part of the team that created the Apple logo.
He's credited with hand-drawing the first version of the apple with the missing piece. 
 In this episode, you'll learn about Carlos's remarkable journey from being a farm worker to playing a pivotal role in creating one of the most recognizable logos of all time.
Hey Carlos. How's it going? Thank you so much for being here today.

[00:01:58] Carlos Pérez David: No, it's an honor to be asked to be on your podcast. 

[00:02:02] Jesus Ramirez: No, sir. The honor is all mine, simply because I've always respected the generations that had come before me. 
I know that I stand in the shoulders of giants, and you're one of those giants. And I first found out about you not that long ago, to be quite honest with you. It was several months ago, maybe back in November.
I was scrolling through TikTok and somebody posted one of your videos, one of your interviews, and it immediately caught my attention because the hook of the video was something like Mexican American is involved in the creation of the iconic Apple logo. And I was like, what? I've never heard about this. 
And it was like a three, four minute video. It talked all about you. And immediately I bookmarked the video and I said, oh, I gotta talk to Carlos at some point. And here we are four months later. So thank you so much for accepting the invitation. 

[00:02:48] Carlos Perez David Thank you as well. The person that posted that, she did it completely on her own. She had nothing to do with it other than she took it upon herself to, to tell the story, that of who was involved in the creation of the Apple logo. And it was Rob, 

[00:03:05] Jesus Ramirez: Right. 

[00:03:06] Carlos Perez David My myself, and then we give credit to Tom Kamafuji. For the stripes of the original logo was the color, six color stripes.

[00:03:16] Jesus Ramirez: I definitely want to talk all about that and I do wanna get to that. But before we do that,
I wanna go back to the beginning because I think it's very important for people to understand where you came from and where you ended up. And I was telling you this off air, but I was doing research about you.
I always do research about my guests. I wanna be informed about who they are, what their passions are, and in reading your story, It was so impactful to me because I couldn't believe the amount of similarities you and I had. We both were born in Mexico. We immigrated to the San Francisco Bay area. We both had a passion for drawing in art as children. As I understand, you were the first person in your family to go to college, and so was I. You started at a community college. You went to Delta, if I'm not mistaken, in here in California, Northern California. And I went to Shabbat College in Hayward, California. And then I went to Cal State East Bay.
You went to San Jose State, which are part of the same school system. It, it's so weird that every, every, everything I read about you, I was like, oh my God, that happened to me. Oh my God. It happened to me. You were a farm worker. I was only a farm worker for one day. I'll tell you more about that story if you like, all these different things.
Even with that time difference, it's incredible how it seemed like our paths are very similar. So I guess we can start by just simply letting people know a little bit about your story.
Tell me a little bit about where you grew up. Tell me a little bit about how you started getting into artwork, how your family was involved, and eventually maybe lead up to how you got into the US and to the Bay Area and all that 

[00:04:44] Carlos Perez David: Sure. So I was born in Mexico City in 1951. I was raised there until the age of three and my mom decided to leave and go back to her hometown of El Chante Jalisco. That's where I actually grew up as a little kid. My mom had come to the states to find work so that she could send money back to support us. While we were, staying with our family, my aunts had noticed that I, she seemed to show some interest in the creative process, and we happened to have, in the family a Tia, there that was an artist. They, said that, they wanted me to start going on every Saturday to be taught by my Aunt Lola, her name was, and she would show me different techniques. 
 And, and basically the instruction from my aunt was, sit, enjoy the moment. And have fun with it. And then, also, what transpired was that, my aunt had told me that there was going to be a play, that was gonna be performed and that they were looking for a child that, that can play a monkey. So she and I worked together to actually assemble a costume for myself so that I could put it on and display it. That was a really, very special moment for me because I got to not only be creative, but also to play out being a monkey. And, apparently I must have been pretty good at at it.

[00:06:28] Jesus Ramirez: So tell me a little bit about your move to the U.S.. How old were you? How did that happen? 

[00:06:33] Carlos Perez David About 1957- 58 timeframe, my mom moved us to another aunt that we had in Tijuana. And, my mom was working already. She was working in, North of San Diego for a doctor cause my mom had been a nurse, back in Mexico City and also in Ucolcan Jalisco. She had worked for the Cruz Roja and she had learned how to be a nurse and that worked out for her. She was able to save enough money to pull together. So that she could go through the process of giving us immigration cards little green cards that, were called alien cards which uh, I thought was always interesting that it called an alien card. 

[00:07:17] Jesus Ramirez: By the way, I had those same ones. I, you said you were in Tijuana. So I actually was born in Mexicali, which is a few hour drive away from Tijuana, a few hours east. So I also had those alien cartex. I know exactly what you're talking about. 

[00:07:31] Carlos Perez David Yeah. Yeah. 
And, uh, by 1960, my mom had acquired those documents and we jumped on a Greyhound bus. She said that she was gonna bring us to, Stockton, California. And it was a very exciting and very moment when we arrived. I remember just thinking, wow, this is like a metropolis. Cause I was like, I used to read a lot of comic books by this time, the word metropolis something that was in the comic books with Superman and batman and Dick Tracy.

[00:08:02] Jesus Ramirez: What was your favorite comic book growing up?

[00:08:04] Carlos Perez David Dick Tracy, for sure! 
 Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I thought, he was the coolest guy. It, it seemed very real to me, as it was it wasn't like a Batman that was flying around or a Superman. He was a real hometown sort of person that was finding the bad guys and and stuff like that, and when I got to, to Stockton as a little kid, I was 10 years old. 
Of course I didn't speak a bit of English at all and it was very foreign to me. The language seemed almost unbearable to listen cause I couldn't understand a word. It sounded like, Charlie Brown's adult speaking, wah wah wah wah. That's what it sounded like to me. By the time I learned English, then things began to go, I think, pretty normal. 
I was uh, pretty much an average grade student. I started to get involved in track and field and cross country. And those activities were very helpful. I got a lot of discipline. My mom was a single parent raising the two of us. 
And we didn't really have a male influence, but I was able to get that from my coaches. When I got to Delta, that's when I think that really things began to flourish for me as an artist. I initially, I was thinking, that I wanted to go maybe into drafting. So I was taking drafting classes, but at the same time, I was still pursuing my drawing abilities and my artistic abilities and taking more classes there.

[00:09:38] Carlos Perez David.: And I had a counselor, that he says, you know, Carlos, you should go into graphic design. I said, why? He goes because it incorporates everything that you have passion for. You, you have a passion for photography, you have a passion for drawing and being an artist, and you have a passion for the technical aspects of it, you have really good discipline to, to be able to do that. And there's an excellent school that I would be great if you can get into their, art and design program called San Jose State. In 1972, I, I got a letter in the mail saying that I had been accepted to the art program of San Jose State. 
I took everything you can imagine that was related to art. I learned how to silk screen, I learned how to do printmaking. Printmaking was actually my minor. And my major was actually graphic design initially at the end of the curriculum for graphic design. 
In 1974, the faculty chose three portfolios as the top three portfolios of the class. And I happened to be one of those three people. Uh, Those three people were given apprenticeships working for an agency somewhere in the valley. And low and behold, I get a call from the senior art director at Regis McKenna Advertising Agency, in Palo Alto, that they were interested in having me come down for an interview. And so I went down there and I met with the senior art director. His name was Hall Kelly. And Hall Kelly hired me on the spot.

[00:11:24] Jesus Ramirez: How old were you at the time?

[00:11:26] Carlos Perez David.: At the time I must have been about 21 thereabouts. 

[00:11:29] Jesus Ramirez: Very young. 

[00:11:30] Carlos Pérez David: Yeah, I was about 21, 22 years old. But in about a year later, after I did my apprenticeship at Regis, I get a call back from a fellow by the name of Dave Takigawa, who happened to be the right, hand person for Regents McKenna.
And, he called me in, he goes, Hey, Regis is gonna be opening up a marketing communications department as part of the agency. And so we're looking for graphic design talent. How would you like to come back and work for us? And so I went down there, spoke with him. He hired me on the spot. The department became known, the graphic conclusion, but it was under the umbrella of Regis McKenna advertising agency.
And I was working as an illustrator. One day we saw this, person walking in. He looked pretty much like a hippie, but we all looked very hippie back in seventies. We all had long hair and we all had that sort of mentality and that look.
And so it wasn't out of the ordinary, but I think that what was odd was that this guy, he just looked like maybe he was just some, someone coming in from the streets and we didn't really know who he was. It turned out to be Steve Jobs that was coming in to visit with Regis and wanting to see if the agency would be willing to take his account.
So this is the part where being at the right place at the right time, it comes into play. By 1976, Regis had been handed the account and we were off and running. We had two years timeframe cause they wanted to launch the company in that timeframe, within that two year timeframe. And so we were able to launch the company, not only as a company, but also as their products. We launched their two products, apple two and the DISC two, which was the floppy disc unit that attached to the system. And at the time, the system didn't have color, it only had one megabyte of capacity. So it wasn't very much, it was really maybe a glamorized typewriter with abilities to be able to project.
Image onto the screen, black and white image, and, uh, calculations . But it really, couldn't do the graphic work yet. That didn't come until later. Steve Jobs and, Wozniak, we call him the two Steves , we rarely would see Wozniak because he was really back at the fort, putting together components and stuff like that. But Steve Jobs was the front man, and he was the one that was the marketing, if you will, person of the agency initially. And he came out and spoke to us, gave us what his vision was and what his directive was and what his mission-

[00:14:24] Jesus Ramirez: Can you summarize what those directives were? 

[00:14:26] Carlos Pérez David: Yeah. Yeah. He said I want you guys to know that we're gonna ride a wave of, about, he sort of anticipated five to 10 years before people would catch up to him to kind of figure that and to summarize it. He basically was looking for us to position his company into four main areas.
One, education, two being able to to calculate. On the computer, your tax returns or running your business. So it was business related. The second one, the third one was the ability to maybe play games. And at the time they did have pong on that machine so that you could actually play pong on it.
The fourth thing is that it needed to be something that was mobile. It needed to be able to be moved very easily from if you were in business, you can bring it home with you, set it up at home and vice versa. 

[00:15:32] Jesus Ramirez: Let's talk a little bit about the logo, cause the way that I understand. 

[00:15:36] Carlos Pérez David: It was Rob who came up with the concept, but it was you who initially drew it. Am I accurate in that statement? 
Yeah, that's correct. Rob was a senior art director, but working on the advertising side around that time, one of the things that Regis did is that he would create teams with people. He would say, okay, I'm gonna put this person and this person on this team and he would always obviously put me into a team, if there was gonna be any drawing involved,
they were gonna be giving it to me because I was basically the illustrator. The art directors would like just comp something up very quickly. We called them thumbnail sketches, they were usually very quick little, almost like you could call 'em napkin sketches, much like Picasso would do and stuff like that.
This was a, a process, a way that, art directors would work. They would just very quickly create something. They might create a half a dozen of different potential ideas. And, we went through a process of elimination with Steve Jobs and with Rob Janoff and myself. By the second meeting that we had with Steve Jobs, he put his finger on this little thumbnail sketch that had been drawn of a little apple with a bite out of it, and it had some color stripes.
Again, it was just, a small probably about this round of a sketch, and that's where it was handed to me and said, have you developed this into a little bit larger shape, and let's see how you work all the things out. Of course being the designer that I am, I was able to sketch things out pretty tight.
We went back and forth a few times about, tweaking this or tweaking that. And by the way, Steve Jobs wanted it to be an Apple because he wanted to have it be in front of the word Atari, he work for Atari and he wanted Apple because Apple was ahead in the alphabet and the stuff would always be shown before Atari.

[00:17:49] Jesus Ramirez: That's so funny. That reminds me of the old like the yellow pages, how it used to have triple A handyman or something just so they could be on top of the, 

[00:17:58] Carlos Pérez David: or the word Acme, right? The word. The word acme. 

[00:18:03] Jesus Ramirez: Yeah, like Bugs Bunny's company or,

[00:18:05] Carlos Perez David Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:18:06] Jesus Ramirez: Yeah.

[00:18:06] Carlos Perez David Yeah, I believe that one of the other reasons that he called it Apple, was that, his original offices were in city here in the valley called Cupertino, which is just, north of San Jose, a few miles. And Cupertino went back in the day, was predominantly apple orchards in that area. 

[00:18:28] Jesus Ramirez: Oh wow. 

[00:18:28] Carlos Perez David.: So I think that might have been also an influencing thing. But I think probably his biggest influence is that it was ahead of the word Atari.

[00:18:38] Jesus Ramirez: That's so funny.

[00:18:40] Carlos Perez David.: And and I made all the final tweaks. We finally got to a point where we showed the final tweaks to Steve Jobs. And he goes, yeah, let's see what it's gonna look like in color. We went ahead and laid it all out in color, showed it to him, and he loved it. And they wanted to move forward with that.

[00:18:57] Jesus Ramirez: Was Steve Jobs as direct and as shall we say unpleasant as some of the stories that are out there about him? And your experience with working with him.

[00:19:06] Carlos Perez David It's really interesting because I had experiences with Steve where he would come into the agency, he would poke around to see what we were doing. And, as an artist, I seemed to get along just fine with Steve. He would come over and look at all the drawings that I was doing for various different projects we were doing everything from his letterhead to the first Apple Magazine. And we were doing posters. We were doing, what you call spec sheets, the specifications, if you will, of the components. So he would come over look at the various different things, and every once in a while he would say, Hey, can you make a copy of that for me? I'd like to have a copy of that. And one of those things, I, at the time I was developing the, in inside of a newsletter. I was creating the newsletter for him, and I had created the first Apple newsletter both as a designer and also as the production of it, because during that time we were still doing production.
I was developing the little icons for each section of the newsletter and he saw this one called patches. At the time they were having to do a lot of patchwork because there was bugs in the process of them developing the components or whatever the. The language was Pascal, and so they were needing to make some adjustments. And those adjustments would be called patches.
So it was a fix on something that they were getting hiccups on or whatever. And so he wanted an icon that said patches. I created a patch that looked like patches, on your Levi's or whatever to cover up the hole that you had in your jeans.
So I created a little symbol that looked like a patch, but it had an upward scale showing progress, upward progress and he really liked that and he came over, boy, I really like this symbol that you created. I also created a symbol for him that he also liked, called out of the mist. And out of the mist was basically something untangible, you know? And so what I did is I created a little cloud with little sort of specks of looking, so like a, the cloud was a little misty and he liked that, that, that symbol too. And it's very interesting because now today, we think of that little symbol that I created back then as the cloud, so you could see how it transitioned that mentality of this thing being out of the Miss intangible sort of data that would, that could be generated, by a system that would basically, be able to create things out of the miss. So to speak, or now we call it the cloud.
That, that's a nice little symbol that I initially created. And also those drawings and illustrations also found themselves into the, the magazine. As I said, I created the mass hit of the word apple all in lowercase using a very simple contemporary font.
And we also during that time, we also merged the word Apple Computers Inc. We had to do that for their stationary and for business cards and stuff like that. And uh, where we tucked in the a into the bite of the logo.

[00:22:34] Jesus Ramirez: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:22:35] Carlos Perez David The other thing that we had during that time was the very first glossary of terms that were being used by these techie people that were creating components like this. And so the newsletter was a group newsletters being sent out to people that were. Tinkering around with the new technology of embedded circuitry and stuff like that. 

[00:22:59] Carlos Pérez David: They had created a glossary of terms and one of the terms inside of there is the word BYTE but not spelled like the way you would spell bite, but it was "B y t e" Byte or you could say bit. The word bit as well. So the fact that the Apple logo has a bite, relates to the fact that we were working with a technology company,

[00:23:28] Jesus Ramirez: Interesting. Never thought about that.

[00:23:31] Carlos Pérez David: That, that gave it some reference. Steve wanted an apple, okay, and he wanted an apple because the logo that he had previously was an illustration of Isaac Newton underneath an apple tree with an apple in his hands. And it was a very much an illustration. It wasn't an icon, and he was looking for something simple, something iconic, and something that would just very quickly say apple. So we were, we looked at a variations of different ways of biting into the apple.
I know, I remember exploring the possibilities that it could have. Teeth marks. But eventually, we went with something even simpler than that, and just simply a curve, that was basically the same shape as the leaf and in some ways I, in my mind when I was developing it playing around with those shapes, I made the leaf the same shape as the bite so that if you take the bite of the apple, when you put it up on top, it became the leaf of the apple. Pretty much that's the way that whole thing was developed. I still have my original sketches.

[00:24:48] Jesus Ramirez: So that's something I'm wanted to ask you, I've seen the photo that you have in your studio that was the first drawing ever of what we all know as a Apple logo. Is that correct? 

[00:24:53] Carlos Perez David That's right. Back in the day you had to create a few different drawings for an item. Okay. And the reason why was that when you were doing a logo this size you wanted it to be sharp. So we usually would then, draw it initially at around, about four or five inches or so high. And then if you wanted to do, and we were gonna do blowups of it, then we have to do, actually do a bigger drawing. So I actually have tissues of both the smaller version that I inked, and I also have the larger version of the inking drawing.

[00:25:35] Jesus Ramirez: I don't know if you've seen this online, so it's okay if you haven't, but I often see people online take the Apple logo and place circles around it and the, rule of third, and the golden ratio, and they, talk about how perfect the logo is. And the question that I have is, was all that on your mind when you were creating the logo?

[00:25:54] Carlos Perez David Absolutely! One of the principles that I learned at San Jose State was developing things with the golden rectangle in mind.

[00:26:03] Jesus Ramirez: Mm.

[00:26:05] Carlos Perez David Those ratios are very important, uh, in terms of, uh, making something, let's say, if you want something to be very iconic, then you want to use those ratios, in this case, we're developing around a circle. Everything that is, based on a circle and a square so yes, absolutely. I was aware of the golden ratio because I had learned at San Jose State. So did Rob. By the way, Rob also attended San Jose State. 

[00:26:32] Jesus Ramirez: Oh, wow. 

[00:26:33] Carlos Perez David I'm sure he was aware. He was aware of that.

[00:26:36] Jesus Ramirez: It's very interesting because I read a lot of stuff about design in general, and I've often seen the Apple logo with different artists, overlaying, you know, different types of things on it to explain why it's such a great logo. And I've always wondered, I wonder if the original artist was thinking about that, or it just so happens to fall into place. But I'm glad to know now for, you know, for you drew it for the first time that all that was in in your mind. It was very well thought out. 

[00:27:03] Carlos Perez David.: By the way, the value of the brand value of Apple Computers Inc. today is pushing somewhere in the $360 billion. 

[00:27:14] Jesus Ramirez: That's insane. 

[00:27:15] Carlos Perez David.: That's a direct reflection of what Regis McKenna, as an agency, what we put into it to make it become that brand.

[00:27:25] Jesus Ramirez: How does it make you feel to have one of your art pieces and, and I know other people were involved, but something that you just basically drew on a piece of paper eventually becomes what is perhaps the most well-known logo of all time. 

[00:27:40] Carlos Perez David Yeah, I mean, it, it, it's, uh, very, very, it, it's incomprehensible. To some degree, I mean, you know, You think about where I came from, my roots as a child growing up in Elchante Jalisco. but, we have always been able to prove people wrong, so to speak, about our capacity and our capability and so forth. 

[00:28:02] Jesus Ramirez: And, and you know what, I'm sorry for interrupting Carlos, but there's something I really, really wanna ask you that I think relates to what you're talking about, because I think it's very important for people listening. You not only have the Apple logo, the original sketch in your office, but you also, as I understand it, have a farm tool in your studio to remember you working in the farms as a teen, why is that important to you? 

[00:28:24] Carlos Perez David Well, because that's my roots. I mean, I started out, you know, I used to go work in the fields. Uh, my mom would take me usually on a weekend. We would go and pick, uh, cherries or we would go and plow fields. We, uh, a bunch of us in high school, that was one way that we could very easily go get a, a quick job and, uh, and make some money so that we can, uh, you know, sport some new clothes and stuff like that.
And so, you know, the feel, feel hands, to work for a day, uh, as a day laborer was easy for us to do. And so we would jump on a, uh, uh, on, uh, one of the labor buses that would meet at a certain location. And so we would go out to work, for, you know, 35 cents a bucket of tomatoes. And, and we were hoeing weeds like, we used to do with the short hoe, which I still have my hoe.  I held on to that guy, you know, and, uh, it meant, it meant something. By this time I knew who I was and those kinds of things. So for me it's always been important to hold onto the things that you're working, your tools that you use. For instance, I still have the tools that I use to create the Apple logo with.
At Delta college I had bought a lot of tools that you needed in drafting. And those are basically the tools that I used to create the Apple logo. There were, T squares, French curves, and so forth to be able to draw good, clean, black and white lines the regraph pin could give you the sharpest line that you could draw, and so all these tools were very important in the process.
 Just the same way that the hoe was a good tool to sort of weed out the weeds around uh, betabel you know, uh, sugar beets so I like to hold on to the things that I work with so I still have the original tools that I created the Apple logo with and would like to see if I can donate that, some of that stuff to, the Smithsonian Institute or whatever.If-

[00:30:30] Jesus Ramirez: I am sure they would. 

[00:30:32] Carlos Perez David.: - have the original tools that the Apple logo. I'd be happy to.

[00:30:35] Jesus Ramirez: I, I think it's really interesting. It shows who you're as a person, that even though you reach the level of success that most designers will only dream of getting to, you're still holding on to that, to your roots, you know, the whole farm working thing you mentioned of being a, a day laborer and you still see that today we, you can go drive down any Home Depot in California, at least, I'm assuming the country, and you'll see day laborer standing there asking for work. And any one of these guys could be the next person who designs the next Apple logo whatever that logo is, it's gonna be recognized worldwide. And, that to me is, is something incredible. I mentioned earlier that I was a, a farm worker for a day when I was about 15 years old. I lived in Southern California in the Coachella Valley and out there, they're, they have a lot of, uh, dates, there's a lot of, uh, palm date palm trees. And my uncle asked me if I wanted to make some money and I said, sure. I'm 15 years old. I, you know, sure. So we went out and we picked dates, and I just remember it being the most grueling, most difficult work ever. That day I taught to myself, there is no way that I'm gonna be able to do this again. Like I gotta go to school and learn how to do something. So graphic design was what I learned how to do. 

[00:31:50] Carlos Perez David Imagine I, I used to hold weeds with this short hoe and I remember rolling into the aisle they had little channels where water, would feed the plant and I would lay inside those on my back because my back 

[00:32:06] Carlos Perez David.: would-

[00:32:06] Jesus Ramirez: Oh my.

[00:32:07] Carlos Perez David.: -hurt badly that I would just lay there just in, in agony, if you will. But I also wanna say , that's part of the process, right? That, that we go through trying to find our way in ourselves into what we want to become. But I also give enormous credit to my aunts who saw that I had some inkling of being a creative person because they're the ones that sort of nurtured my life and began to nurture me as a creative person by sending me to learn how to paint and draw by my aunt.
It takes a village, if you will. To get us to where we're going. I have this saying that I'll write about in my literature. An idea can turn to dust or magic, depending on the talent that rubs against it, okay? 
And so the magic that is rubbed against whoever initiated for you to become a creative person. Because they saw it in you, they're part of that process. And then from there, you're rubbing against your peers, you're rubbing against your teachers, you're rubbing against new techniques and new art forms and so forth that you learned along the way.
And so all those things become the magic that rubs against it, right? So an idea, you have an idea of what you want your life to be, and so you rubbing yourself and becoming a sponge for the things that will nurture that creativeness inside you is extremely important but most important, I have to say, it also includes those individuals that you also have rubbed against that helped you find your way. Just like that teacher that said to me, Mr. Williams said to me one day, at Delta College, don't come to my class. Go to Wayne Tebow's class. You're gonna learn a lot about painting there. Mr. Williams, I had a chance to actually exhibit those drawings at Delta College. He was so moved by the fact that I went on to actually do this. And he goes, man, I sure am glad that I sent you to that class cause it seemed like it really made a big difference. Bless his soul. But everything and everything is so important.

[00:34:43] Jesus Ramirez: I completely agree. 

[00:34:45] Carlos Perez David: Also a little quick short story. I was lost in Mexico City at the age of two, for two days. 

[00:34:54] Jesus Ramirez: Oh my God. 

[00:34:56] Carlos Perez David: My mom, of course was besides herself and she was praying to La Virgen de Guadalupe for, for them to find me. And I was found. What was really odd though, Was that we could never figure out how did I get from the playground where the sitter had taken us during that day. But she had a boyfriend and so her attention got sidetracked uh, from watching those kids. And before I knew it, I used to be sort of like wanting to wander.
My mom said that I always would take off on her, so she was always afraid. That I would do that. And sure enough, I did that one day and they could not find me, and eventually when they did find me though it was interesting, is that they couldn't figure out how did I get from there all the way to the airport where they found me? They found me underneath a tree where I was watching the airplanes coming and going.

[00:35:55] Jesus Ramirez: How far was that distance, by the way? 

[00:35:57] Carlos Perez David It was about a mile away from the airport where we lived. 

[00:36:01] Jesus Ramirez: That's far for a little kid. 

[00:36:02] Carlos Perez David: Yeah. And so they don't know if somebody might have picked me up with the intention of putting me somewhere publicly so that I could be seen and found.
But that's how it transpired. But what was interesting to my mom is that when she, they found me, she found inside my mouth, that I had some bits of apple that somebody must have given me. And so that was a very interesting, my mom told me this story way before this whole Apple thing started, but it was interesting to her that somebody tried to feed me and give me something to chew on uh, 

[00:36:41] Jesus Ramirez: The missing piece. 

[00:36:43] Carlos Perez David: Yeah, it, it was this, the, these little pieces of apple, she says you were eating. Little pieces of apple that somebody had had, must have, provided them to you or don't know how It must, it could have been a vendor, like a little vendor or something.

[00:36:57] Jesus Ramirez: Now, Carlos, we're running out of time and I do like to end the show with a series of lightning round questions, so you can give me a short answer, a longer answer completely up to you. the first question I really wanted to ask you is, are you an Apple or Android user? 

[00:37:11] Carlos Perez David: I've always been an Apple user. I have all the, the bells and whistles. Uh, now we have our iPhones, you know, and, uh, our, our, our smart watches and stuff like that, you know?

[00:37:24] Jesus Ramirez: What is the most valuable professional lesson you learned that translated into your personal life? 

[00:37:30] Carlos Perez David.: Discipline. You have to have discipline in both places,

[00:37:34] Jesus Ramirez: Right. 

[00:37:34] Carlos Perez David.: Whether it's business or whether it's personal.

[00:37:38] Jesus Ramirez: I definitely agree. Is there an insult you've received that you're particularly proud of? If so, why? 

[00:37:45] Carlos Perez David: Yeah, oftentimes, you sometimes you get pegged into to being only one thing, like for instance I don't like to have people only think of me as the artist that drew the Apple logo. That's one part of me. But I'll also have created other things that have touched the masses, for instance. I created, a sculpture, for Cinequest film Festival called the Maverick Spirit Award, and has been given to filmmakers of the highest caliber.
Name a filmmaker, and I'll pretty much guarantee that person Harrison Ford. I'll just throw out one names that, that has, my sculpture in his collection of awards. The other one is La Estrella De Oro was given to Selena, for instance. It was given to Jose jose, it was given to Guadalupe Pineda.
Some of the things that, uh, you know, Sometimes getting pegged into, you know, only doing one thing. No, I've been fortunate enough in my career and have had enough opportunities along my way where there's other things besides the one thing that I've come to be known for. I have one of the things that I have also have made me be the person that I am today.

[00:39:07] Jesus Ramirez: Definitely. And you know what? you actually, answered my second question was gonna be basically what you just answered, so I won't ask it. But the question was, besides the Apple logo, were there other, artwork that you created that has impacted the masses? I even use that word and there you go.
You answered it for me. So that was a great answer. The next question that I have for you is, how do you see the graphic design industry in general today compare as to when you were first starting out. Do you think it's the same? Do you think it's better? Obviously technology is different. There's no, real discussion there.
But in terms of like creativity, do you think younger people have an easier time now? Is it more difficult? How do you see the whole industry now? 

[00:39:48] Carlos Perez David Well, I think in the advent of, uh, in fact I've been tinkering a lot, my son wrote some of the texts in my story, and one of the words that he used in there, technophile is the word technophile.
I sort somewhat consider myself a technophile to, to a big degree just because I've grown up, if you will, here in Silicon Valley. So much of it is about technology, and so forth. being a creative person with technical background abilities, I think gives you, an edge. And so for me, especially with AI now, right?
A lot of people are afraid of AI. I'm looking forward to it. I'm actually beginning to scratch the surface on how I, as a creative person, can utilize the tool of AI., because remember, when the computer first came around, people were afraid of it, and they were afraid of it because they were afraid that their jobs would be taken up by it.
Not so, not so. Don't be afraid of it, be challenged by it. See what you can do with it. As a creative person, you're never gonna be robbed by technology. It, it, you can only maybe, uh, within, within that you, you, you can make it be, uh, even a better tool, right? Artists have always been able to uh, you know, when color, uh, in the world, uh, it, one time was, was pretty much black and white.
Everything was black and white. All the advertising and so forth was black and white. When color was introduced, oh, it was a difficult time for people because they. Didn't know how to use color, but once we learned how to use color effectively, we could actually use color very effectively to move people, to move your feelings, to move your emotions, to move you to maybe purchase something or whatever.
And it's a, it's an important very important tool 
uh, to-

[00:41:54] Jesus Ramirez: I definitely agree. 

[00:41:55] Carlos Perez David be accepting, challenge yourself, be challenged by it. 

[00:41:59] Jesus Ramirez: And Carlos, the last question I have for you is, how can our listeners support you and your work? Where can people find you? 

[00:42:04] Carlos Perez David Well, let me, let me, uh, uh, put something out there. I'm gonna be, featured in a very well-known magazine, in May. The magazine is called, Content Magazine it, it's published here in, uh, in San Jose in the heart of Silicone Valley. Predominantly is focused on highlighting the creative careers of people that create content.
Their website is obviously contentmagazine.com. 

[00:42:34] Jesus Ramirez: Okay. 

[00:42:35] Carlos Perez David You can go to my website at artorigindesign.com. 

[00:42:41] Jesus Ramirez: Awesome. I will have those links into show notes for people to just click on, and if you just heard it and write it down, that's fine too. Carlos, thank you so much. I really appreciate you being here. There was so much more I could probably talk to you for days just because you're a wealth of information. You've been involved in some incredible projects and I just wish we had more time. But thank you so much for the time. you gave now. 

[00:43:02] Carlos Perez David You're welcome. It's been a pleasure.